Fats and Protein Pre-workout?



  • What's your opinion on fats and carbs in your preworkout meal?

    My general go-to is toast with banana and honey for those quick carbs.

    Morgan Kube
    mkfittCP.com


  • REP

    Fats should not be incorporated into your pre-workout meal as they slow digestion causing food to sit in the stomach. Small amounts probably aren't bad, and it really depends on how it effects YOU. Everyone is a bit different. If I eat peanut butter before a workout, my food sits in my stomach like a rock. Also, you should be looking for slower digesting carbs before exercise for sustained energy and glucose levels. Simple sugars will cause a spike and crash in insulin levels leaving you fatigued. Save the simple sugars for post workout. On a side note, rather than GI, consider the Glycemic load of the meal you are having. Honey's insulin release is slowed by say whole wheat toast


  • REP

    My go to pre workout meal is a bowl of oatmeal about an hour before the gym. My post meal is a banana and a protein shake (whey) with sweetened almond milk for more sugar.



  • @pmerkel said:

    Fats should not be incorporated into your pre-workout meal as they slow digestion causing food to sit in the stomach. Small amounts probably aren't bad, and it really depends on how it effects YOU. Everyone is a bit different. If I eat peanut butter before a workout, my food sits in my stomach like a rock. Also, you should be looking for slower digesting carbs before exercise for sustained energy and glucose levels. Simple sugars will cause a spike and crash in insulin levels leaving you fatigued. Save the simple sugars for post workout. On a side note, rather than GI, consider the Glycemic load of the meal you are having. Honey's insulin release is slowed by say whole wheat toast

    no need for simple sugars PWO. most people who use them were those studied as endurnace athletes or those trained in a 24 hour fasted state

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15277409
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17617942

    For most of us who train with an intra-workout BCAA or pre-workout meal there is stil food overlap as i touched in the other thread, do we need to spike insulin? absolutely not, food is still digesting, aminos are still present, so do we really need simple carbs post-workout not really..

    Could they be optimal .. sure why not? but remember the total calories/macros if meeting your protein/fat/fiber minimums on a daily basis are optimal for your goal.

    more:

    he postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

    Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

    You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.

    More:

    "ou do not need to neccessarily "spike" insulin for creatine to be maximally absorbed, but yes insulin is involved with the trasnsport.

    FYI: The insulin and creatine studies I have seen up to this point have involved taking the glucose 30 minutes after the creatine. This may be because the insulin release from the dextrose doesn't entirely coincident with the pharmacokinetics of the creatine absorption.

    Personally I think more consistent waves of insulin may be more anabolic than "spikes" anyway. This is because smoother waves of insulin more than likely affect ATP production more beneficially than "spikes" probably do. ATP is what rebuilds muscles and you want the most efficiency you can get here. I'm saying this because there is a delicate balance here between oxidative phosphorylation and lipogenesis (stimulated by acetyl COA carboxylase from HCO3-) in the mitochondrial in the presence of insulin. This "balance" I am talking about here is different for everyone though. Some people "shunt" over to lipgenesis so much sooner than other people. This has to do with other "global" processes happening in the body."

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

    The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulinlevels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

    Team ScoobyPrep
    Scivation/Primaforce Online Represenative



  • Fats pre-workout would be perfectly fine

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/files/unprotected/AARR-Jan-2008.pdf

    They would help GI emptying and help hold the nutrients in the body through the intra-workout into the post-workout period. They also lower the entire GI of the entire meal. to help suppress a larger insulin spike which 99% of gym trainees do not need.

    Fats have been shown to slow down digestion and therefore will slow down the absorption of your post-workout meal.

    Fat, however, must be broken down into fatty acids before it can be used as fuel, and only endurance athletes who vigorously exercise throughout the day are able to use up all their glycogen stores before their bodies start using fat.

    There is also research on protein and fat meals pre-workout to help with fatloss and insulin sensitivity

    -- By ingesting high-fat meals in the morning and afternoon, you increase metabolic flexibility – setting the metabolism for higher fat oxidation throughout the day. As LPL enzyme (splits up circulating fatty acids and makes them available for storage) is higher in muscle in the AM, fats are more likely to be burned off as energy or stored as lipid droplets within the muscle (IMTG).

    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the morning, the same “metabolic inflexibility” occurred, and the metabolism is fixed towards glucose oxidation instead of fat oxidation. This also increases fat storage from meals eaten during the day, and higher-fat meals eaten in the evening in particular.
    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the evening, you get a bump in the natural leptin signal (occurring 3-6hrs after going to sleep), essentially increasing fat burning through the night and the rest of the following day.

    -- Insulin sensitivity is higher in all cells early in the day, including fat cells, but decreases towards the afternoon and evening, thus partitioning carbs ingested at this time more efficiently into muscle vs. fat. This is obviously further improved by training the muscle that day.

    -- Eating carbs will increase the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin and make you sleepy. What better time to have your carbs than a couple of hours before bedtime so you can fall into a deeper, higher-quality sleep:

    http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/content.php?108-The-Biorhythm-Diet

    This is AAR

    Team ScoobyPrep
    Scivation/Primaforce Online Represenative


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